Help anyone!! i need to remove cylinder 1-3 exhuast cam (rear cam) i have the fly wheel at the 1-3 crankcase mark (does it matter if i have turned it clock/counterclockwise?) the in/outlet id’s are facing upwards and camcog marks more or less flush with the head, cylinder 3’s rocker arm has som slack (valve closed) but cylinder 1’s rocker is tight (no give, with oil hole just off center) is this correct? arent both supposed to have give in them at 1-3 mark, or do i have to back off cylinder 1’s valve rocker screws to give it some slack before removing the rear cam? thank you for any help granted.
Hi… you will have to slacken the valve adjusting screws… what you need to do is mark the cam chain and cog with a little tippex jus as a reference… then remove the upper bolt that fastens the cam to the cog… then turn the crank anti clockwise until the other cam sprocket bolt is at the top… your cam marks will be facing downwards… then pull up the cam chain tensioner arm and lock it so you have some slack in the chain… then see if the cam will come out from under the cam caps… if it won’t remove the other cam sprocket bolt so seperating cam and sprocket then it should come out easily… don’t let the cam chain go slack, tie it up with a bungie strap if neccesarry… then remove the cam chain tensioner…
On instalation match the tippex marks up on cam cog and chain then insert the cam into the cog… line up one of the bolt holes remembering which way the cam goes…
When you have it assembled again you must check that all the cam marks in both the front and rear cylinders line up… if you drop a notch or two on the cam chain between front and rear cylinders it will be one big mess if you try to start it…
On another point… when you initially said that you were getting slack between the cam sprockets… I do take it you were turning the altinator anti clockwise “direction of travel”… if you were turning it clock wise you will get slack in any cam chain…
'hi Pete thank you again! am i taking out the one cog bolt access to the tensioner? and am i to take out the cam when the ER cam marks are down? i thought it came out at T1-3, whan marks upwards, when you say on instalation check that all the cam marks in both the front and rear cylinders line up, you mean inlet outlet cams line up? about the slack between the came sprockets, it was my mate cranking it, so i’m not sure wich way, not sure if he remembers either, there were rub/wear marks on the top overhead guide, not deep but some wear and the noise did sound as if it could be exactly that, from the top, here is a link to a video of the noise.
Cold engine
Warm engine
Hi… what I mean is… because you are only removing the exhaust cam you will probably have to seperate the cam shaft from its sprocket so you can get it out…its held together with 2 bolts, one at the top just under the ER mark and one below which you can’t get to unless you turn the crank… idea is to remove the top bolt then turn the crank anti clockwise until you can get to the other…
At T13 all the cam timing marks on both the front and rear cylinders must line up with the heads and all the the ER…IR…EF… and IF marks must face either up or down… It doesn’t mater which way as long as they all face the same way…up or down
I can’t stress how important it is that you check the timing marks on the front cylinders as well as the rear when you have re assembled everything…
P.s. I may be wrong but your engine sounds like the slipper blade isn’t located in its slot…
Okay i think i have it now, got to take off front cylinter cam cover and have a look at the cam marks there then, all four cams must line up at T1-3 and id marks either up or down … simple :-/ you say you think it’s the slipper blade not in it’s position, would that cause the noise in the top, we used a stethoscope to locate the noise and it is from the within the cam cover, you can’t really hear that from the video.
Thank you vf pete.
yep, thats correct,at t1.3 all four cams must have there timing marks inline with the cylinder heads and all four must face up or down,
Its hard to diagnose problems from behind a computer screen, to me though there sounds to be a fair bit of a grinding sound which would indicate that the cam chain is binding on something, probably the end of the slipper, there is a little chain slap, but you would get that because the tensioner cant tension the chain correctly,
The end of the slipper is deep inside the engine so you wouldnt be able to get near the base of it with a stethascope, any noise created at the bottom of the slipper will transmit up into the head where you will be able to here it along with the chain slap… thats my theory anyway, like i say, i could be wrong…
P.S. there is a workshop manual which you can download on the front page of this forum…
Thanks … i feel a little more sure now … is it possible to see where the slipper blade sits in it’s position? wondering how deep down … my friend has a bendy camera just over 1ft long i’d say, it connects to his iphone, would this do?
never tried a bendy camera before but i guess it should do the trick…
Hi Pete!! Got everything out with no problems, Slipper blade and slot no problems with either, the Tensioner was extended right out pushed up against the plastic around the spring, and it was taking some of the plastic off and bending the spring up a little to make it stronger was the mod the worshop was going to, i will do it myself, i was wondering how much plastic to take off thinking if i take a lot off, the tensioner will be extended so far downwards it will probably be touching the head housing, would this matter? you asked about the slack i had in the chain and was i cranking it anticlockwise, yes there is slack at some points (one being at T1-3 id marks up) when going anticlockwise (the way the motor runs)
The worshop is also going to lend me a little tool for lifting the cams when in place for vave clearance adjustment this tool isn’t menstioned in the manual? anything you have heard of maybe (it is an original honda tool for this)
no problems so far 
just the valve clearance i’m worried about, i’m not to good at understanding manuals.
Also unsterstood that the mod might not take all the slack up and i need a new cam chain.
well done mate, i would remove the plastic sleave that covers the spring, after 30+ years they tend to go hard and restrict the movement of the spring.
You must have a hell of a lot of stretch in the cam chain if the tensioner is going to go so far down that it rests on the cylinder head housing, they do sometimes just rest pretty close to one side of the housing but they should always have a little room for movement to allow it to work properly, you should be able to touch the top of the slipper blade with a screw driver and wiggle it about…
When you are hand turning the crank you will always get “less tight” areas on the cam chain, the most common is when the the rear exhaust or front inlet valves are closing, the pressure of the valve springs try to turn the cam.
Cam lifting tool, for me the jury is out on that one, i used to use one all the time but of recent i havent bothered with it…
i’ve cut the plastic by half, not restricted any more, didn’t take it all because the spring was rubbing slightly against that curled up piece on the bottom turned the spring one turn and hooked it on to make it a little stronger, seems okay, the tensioner wasn’t touching the head but worried it might now it is not restricted, ive have earned about 5-6mm on the locking mechanism bar (from the mark left from where it was locked before modding) when fully extended … now it’s just getting the slipper blade into place without removing the inlet cam … fingers crossed
Hi again pete!! put everthing back together with modded Tensioner and no real hitches, BUT the chain was still slapping against the overhead guide (turning over with only start motor) but we did notice the bolt holes on the guide are bigger than the bolts, so we slid the guide forwards about ca.3-4mm tightened down the bolts and wayhay!! no noise, but this is marginal and don’t know how it will sound when running.
They say that there are no stupid questions on the forum? so here are a few for you.
Is it possible to put washers ca.1-1.5 thick under the guide to lift it up? … if so… will it matter if there is 1-1.5 mm less thread on the bolts?, will the Torque measurements be the same?, and if lifted will the guide stop the cam cover being bolted down properly? … last! i am wondering what the twists/splines that are half way down the bolts are for?? is it to keep the bolt centered on it’s way down through the top?
The cam chain seemed to be a little less slack than before, so the mod might of worked somewhat, i took half of the plastic away and twisted the spring one turn and hooked it on again to give a little more tension … it did open up a bit more after doing this.
Hi… I’m not sure about the washers idea it’s not something I have tried. If the chain is hitting the upper guide it may be that you still have some issues with the tensioner or too much stretch in your cam chain… you mentioned that there was a mark on the tensioner where the locking mechanism sits. If that mark is more like a groove I would be inclined to change the tensioner or at least try to smooth it down as the locking mechanism finds it difficult to climb over these marks…as a general guide if you put 2 fingers under the cam chain between the cogs and pull up moderately… try this at a few diferent points… if your tensioner is dodgy you will actually feel it slip…
The spiral bolts are stretch bolts… they allow a for more controle when torqueing down and for expansion and contraction of the head when hot…
i will try the 2 finger test, as i said after we moved forward the guide to where it should sit (according to the bolthead stains on it) there seems to be no noise (with start motor) i think i will throw it together and see what it sounds like (if we hadn’t bolted it slightly wrong we’d be none the wiser) i even pushed down the tensioner at the back with a screw driver no more give (maybe fully out and resting on the head) if not, i imagine the locking mechanism has made it over that little mark (groove actually as you said) hard to see at the moment, maybe it is a streched chain, too much work for me to split the motor, i heard people have done it without splitting it, i can see the possibility of opening a chain up and getting down around the crank, but what would be the best/safest way to join it again? any way of measuring a chains length while still in the motor (that could be a stupid question was thinking the Tensioner might kick in a little better when the motor is running possibly, i do appreciate your assistance with this Pete. … are you British? … you called me mate in a post, i’m an expat since 89 living in Sweden.
hi,
yes british, yorkshire to be precice,
you can get cam chains with a soft rivit link, Wemoto do them, about £45 for the chain and a couple of quid for the soft link which is sold seperatly…
i dont think there is any way to measure the chain whilst it is still in the engine, the honda method is to remove it, hang it over 2 cam sprockets, then measure between the cam marks… complicated or what… to be honest ive changed a number of cam chains in the course of rebuilding engines and ive not found one yet thats been stretched more than a mill or two…
like you say, from where you are now its not a long job to put the covers on and the fuel tank and give it a go…
Thanks Pete! will put it together and see how it is, the guy at the workshop didn’t believe it was streched even after ca 33,000miles … so somewhere it is the tensiner, i will have look and see if it is working properly or if it is out to it’s limit, no problem with the front cylinder cam chain so i don’t see why this one would be streched, putting together tomorrow … so fingers crossed Myself i’m from Plymouth … a little way down from you.
Give you an update as soon as i can. Thanks!!
Well Pete!! no luck there … put it back together and the same noise, even after the tensioner mod and it looks like the locking bar on the fron has moved out a little … still sounds like it is hitting that top guide or a liitle way’s back
where the housing protrudes for the back cam and tensioner … so hard to hear, even with a stethoscope, maybe should do a spring pivot/anchor mod, streching out the spring a bit on the tensioner and a new cam chain, and if a new chain how to join it?, whats the best way to spread the ends of a Rivet link without making it too tight,can’t think of anything else i can do, don’t really know where to go from here… any suggestions?
Downer… if it were my bike and I was confident that the slipper blade was correctly located I would ditch the tensioner get a another one from eBay. New chain and a soft link from wemoto.
If you don’t want to go to the expences of the new chain there is this item on ebay… 381686462264 you have everything there that is in the cam chain circuit… you would need to double check that it is for your model/year…
I would imagine the soft cam chain links have a punched head same as your drive chain… so shouldn’t be that hard to join…
Slipper blade seems to be in place, you can feel it sort of rolling back and forth a little in it’s little rounded ditch at the bottom (ditch or rounded bottom thats what it looked like from above) can’t see it being jammed up against the chain otherwise we would hear it grating, the front slipper guide seems to be in place, looked at the Ebay items, the thing is with used parts, they could be just as useless as the ones i have (no new tensioners to be found, so not much choice really) although they are cheap, it say’s model Intercepter VF1000 F (2) the intercepter is correct, is the F & F2 motors the same, i think the F2 just had cosmetic changes? might have to buy these items, might get one good tensioner from the two, and a new DID chain and DID rivet link from Wemoto quite cheap now with the pound so low 43 quid, what is the difference with soft link and rivet link? the guy there said they have had complaints about other links like master/locking links, they aren’t made precisely for the chain i think.
F and F2 motors are mostly the same, those bits will definitely fit.